Dan:  So I take it you guys have been to Minnie's before?
Ingrid:  Oh yeah
Ashkelon:  Have you seen us here before?

D:  No, no, it's just that you guys suggested meeting here and all.
I:  This is like the coolest restaurant, except for this sports bar which isn't really a sports bar called Ileen's.
A:  Ileen's gets a really interesting crowd, too.  We're familiar with this area mostly because Eric from Faith & Disease used to live nearby, so we'd always walk up here and get breakfast when we were in Seattle.  This is my 12th time to Seattle and Trance to the Sun's 8th or 9th Seattle show, I'm not sure.  We played at the Crocodile Café in '95 and also the Underground in '95.  There was two shows in '97 at the Fenix and two shows in '98 at the Fenix…a show in '98 at the Showbox…a show in '99 at the Fenix…

D:  You guys tour a lot then I take it…(laughs)
A:  Yeah, especially in the west.  The east, no.  Like, it is the first Trance to the Sun gig in Philadelphia in five years.  I think it will be our fifth time in Omaha, Nebraska.

Victor:  What's it like in Omaha?
I:  (laughs)
A:  (laughs)
I:  You mean the scene or just in general?

V:  Both.  I've only been there once for about 2 minutes…
A:  "Great deals on fifteen-pound slabs of beef, right down on 36th Street in the Big O!"
I:  Yeah…(laughs)  But then there is like a really cool scene there, because there is nothing for kids who are into alternative type shit to do, so they are totally supportive.  It's like that in most small towns.  Well… they're not small towns really…  places that you wouldn't want to live, you know?
A:  Places that would get overlooked by… like The Cure tour, for example.  It jumps from Denver over to Chicago or whatever.  They don't know what they are missing - there are huge cities out there.  They just aren't given access.

V:  Ingrid, on the website, it says that you often change the lyrics when you perform live.  Do you just improvise them at that time, depending on how you're feeling?
I:  Um…  That happens pretty rarely and usually when it does, it's a pretty old song.  It'll be like a song that is a year old or something and I won't be feeling the same way.  Often during practice, I'll realize that something fits way better and I'm all about being totally honest, so I feel like sometimes it's dishonest to say something you don't necessarily mean any more.  Not that I ever say anything that I don't think I'll mean in a year, but there's just sometimes better ways of saying the same thing.  Then there are some sections of certain songs where I totally improvise.
A:  Ingrid has got like multiple versions of some of her lyrics that she chooses between, I think, when she hits those parts.
I:  Yeah.
A:  It's funny because you said 'a song is old when it is like a year old,' but like our song is a year old before most of our public even hears it, so it comes across more as you just always change the lyrics.  There's always this lag time between the time when we make a song and when it is out and the time a fan buys it.
I:  People are like 'Ohh!!' about a certain song and I'm like…(makes face)…'I like this new one a lot better!' (laughs)
A:  The perfect example is the song we were asked to play by the promoters.  We pulled out a song called "The Spider Planet" from Urchin Tear Soda, by request of the Convergence promotion people.  It came out last November of '99, but we recorded the song in December of '97 and we haven't played it live since March of '98.

V:  So do you play songs before they actually come out on CD?
I:  Yeah.  A few of the songs we played last night are like that.
A:  We did 3 new songs last night.  Two of them are available on the web site as mp3s.  It's a new way for us to get them out early, but not a lot of people know they are there yet.

V:  What kinds of things inspire you, outside of the music world?
I:  Almost everything that inspires me is outside of the music world.  My favorite artist in the whole world is Egon Schiele and his paintings inspire me more than anything else, more than any band I've ever heard.  I want to create the same feeling in music that there is in his paintings.
A:  Ingrid is a pretty incredible, professional visual artist.  She displays her stuff in galleries and sells her paintings for impressive hunks of change.
I:  This is a recent thing.  It's like living in a dream.  It's what I've wanted to do since I was, I don't know, like five inches tall.

V:  Is the scene pretty tight in the LA area or not?
A:  (shakes head)  It never has been.  Do you mean the band scene or the clubs?

V:  The bands.
A:  I'm acquainted with a lot of the bands that have been around for a long time.  There aren't really too many bands down there anymore.  I wouldn't describe the LA musician scene as tight - anything but, actually.

V:  How did the band take shape in the early days?
A:  I released the first two instrumental cassettes in '90 and '91.  I did a few shows, played in some cafes, and opened for This Ascension once.  Just doing my guitar thing and I do a little singing.  They were really impressed with it, then their bass player quit and they asked me to step in and play bass with them.  So I did.  After six months, I quit.  It was difficult for me to write songs with them.  I'm not much of a group songwriter.  I can write songs with one other person pretty well, but with four other people, it just doesn't work very well for me.  It seems like a lot of times when you are in a band where they all write songs together, everyone is responsible for their own part.  And if everyone is really good, then it sort of works.  But for me, it is too important to me, when I am playing a certain note, it's too important what everyone else is doing, you know?  Somehow, it's just not satisfying to me to just be responsible for my part and have faith in that many more people.
I:  He's a control freak.
A:  (laughs)  But I know that's bad, see, so I get down on myself and frustrated.  It's a no-win situation.  But with one person, I can kind of reign that in and allow them to go like, 'No, you're wrong.'
I:  I won't let him be a control freak.  We always agree on music, when we are writing, don't you think?
A:  Yeah, we rarely have songwriting disagreements.
I:  And if we do, it's who makes the better argument, not who has the bigger ego.
A:  Yes, that's very true.  So after, This Ascension, I started Blade Fetish with a guy named Mark Linder, who sang and played guitar.  I played bass…
I:  Blade Fetish totally rock, they were amazing.
A:  That lasted from '91 til '93.  We did a Western states tour and then the band broke up.  We made one album.  Then later on, I issued a CD-R of demos, which people still write to me and ask for sometimes.  The original Blade Fetish album is basically out of print, though there are still various copies around to be found.  After that fell apart, I decided I wanted to go back and continue with Trance to the Sun and I added a singer, Zoe Wakefield.  She was the first singer, I added a bass player for going on tour, added a synth player, and we made three albums.  Then Zoe left in August of '96, a week before a big show in San Francisco, she walked out of practice.  It had started to be the end for a good six months.  The previous show she had walked offstage after four songs.  I was really fortunate at that San Francisco show, because a friend of mine was in California, Gordon Sharp from Cindytalk and This Mortal Coil, so he sang for Trance to the Sun at that show.  After that, there was a singer that I had seen open for us in Iowa doing her solo thing that I really dug.  I asked her if she wanted to be the singer for Trance to the Sun and se said 'Good' and she came out in December of '96 and lasted about seven months.  We made the Delirious CD and did a brief national tour, but it didn't work out.  Ingrid had been playing violin on various tracks in the studio since '96.  There was an album that Zoe and I were working on after Venomous Eve that was to be the fourth Trance to the Sun album.  Never got finished.  Some of those songs got put out on the Azalean Sea collection.  We have two versions of how Ingrid came into the band, my version and her version.  Basically, I had to fire Dawn because it became clear that her priorities were with her solo project and that's why she joined Trance to the Sun.  I was just a stepping stone for that, she just wanted to make more of a name for herself, make more contacts.  When it came down to the fact that there couldn't be a Trance to the Sun gig unless she got to open it with her solo project, then I was like, this is bullshit.  So, I told her to get lost, but there's a lot of business things…  One thing I had been working for a long time on was getting us a booking agent and I finally got him to book us some shows, so he booked us an opening slot with Switchblade Symphony in California, so I sang on all those gigs.  We were asked to contribute to an album called New Wave Goes to Hell on Cleopatra, which is goth bands covering new wave tunes.  I wanted to do "Fade to Grey," so I got Mark from Blade Fetish to sing it and the original has a girl who speaks French, so I immediately thought of Ingrid because she can speak French.  So she did the French vocals on it and did some violins and we really liked the way her voice sounded on tape.
I:  Yeah.  Well, that part is right…
A:  (laughs)  She and her boyfriend were at my house and they both said, 'Why don't you make a song for me to try to sing?'  I was working on my cover of "Set the Controls For the Heart of the Sun" and had been working on it for a while.  Recently, I had been asked by Athan of Spahn Ranch to do something, so I was going to ask him to come and sing on it.  I said, 'Okay, here's the lyrics, why don't you try to sing this' and it was really fucking cool.  So I never did a project with Athan, unfortunately.  So I just said, 'How would you like the job?' to Ingrid and she said, 'Okay.'

V:  What's the line-up of Trance to the Sun like, from the studio compared to playing live?
A:  We've been closing that gap.  I'm trying to Joaquin in the studio more and more with us to play bass.  We were able to have him record on two of the songs on Urchin Tear Soda and he's been working with us on new stuff.  I work really spontaneously in my home studio.  I'll stay up all night for a couple of days and record.  I'm horrible about changing things.  I'll record a song perfectly and then decide that one instrument needs to be completely different or something.  The way I've developed my working procedure in Trance to the Sun, it is kind of difficult to work with other musicians.  I can't call them at 4 in the morning and say, 'We've got to change this part right now - I've got this idea.'  It's not too difficult when I'm just working with Ingrid.  I can call her up and say, 'You gotta come over and record three words because it's gotta go over this new guitar riff I just came up with.'  We've done that.  She's come over just to record three words over again, but to try and integrate more people into that…

V:  How do you think the music differs live from the studio?
I:  It doesn't really, except like Joaquin will add stuff sometimes.
A:  Sometimes I say, 'No!' (laughs).  But Joaquin makes some great contributions, some excellent ideas to improve the songs when we play them live.  We're just wilder live.  We try to concentrate more on the wild songs, more powerful.
I:  A lot of people I've talked to like us way better live.
A:  Yeah, I've heard that too.
I:  I think if your music sounds exactly the same when you're live as when you recorded it, it's kind of stupid to even bother.  Unless you dress really well or act really crazy.  If people pay money to go see you, they want to see YOU, so you have to totally be yourself and go insane.  That's what he does (pointing to Joaquin) - he's fucking hilarious, he's so cool.
A:  Well said.  You have to expand on the statement you are making and we do it musically.  Some people expand on it fashionably and some people do both, like maybe Duran Duran when they were at their peak.

V:  How do you put together the setlist for your shows?
A:  Trial and error.  We try a setlist at practice and go, 'This sucks.'  Try another setlist and go, 'That transition blows…'  Finally we find one that works.  Last night we did something unprecedented - we performed a song that we never rehearsed.
I:  Yeah, Ash decided at the last rehearsal that we needed more spaciness in the set.  Our spaciest song is a song called [couldn't quite hear this part--ed.] and he's like, 'So, um, we're going to learn it in the car.'  We didn't learn it in the car, so we had to learn it backstage right before we went on.  We actually did it right.
A:  We practiced it in the car, just as we were coming into Seattle.
I:  Yeah, once, at like four in the morning or something.
A:  I'm like, 'Help me stay awake!  Let's start practicing!' (laughs)  But, yeah, we pulled it off, I thought it went down pretty well.

V:  Do you guys handle your own web-site
A:  (points to Joaquin)  Joaquin is a fucking genius.  It's sort of like how I work with music, I have an understanding the basics of theory and stuff and from there I just do my own thing.  Joaquin has the basic understanding of JavaScript and HTML and all that, but then he just does it his own way and it's gnarly.  He's got some innovative ways of keeping the scripts really short.
Joaquin:  Basically, I've been doing computer stuff for most of my life, so I have pretty good understanding of how to make things work and optimize them to be fast.  And still look really cool.
(all):  (laughs)
A:  When we want to work on the web-site, I sit down with him and Ingrid's there too or at least she knows what we're going to do.
I:  Yeah, I don't own a computer.
A:  She's not the computer type, plus when we work on the web-site, it will be like four hours sitting in front of the computer.
I:  …and I can barely turn it on. (laughs)

V:  Ever played Mexico?
A:  No.

V:  Is that something you'd consider doing if you had the money?
A:  I don't believe in spending a whole lot of money to tour.  It has to be close to a break-even proposition to go out and do a show.  If it could be, hell yeah.
I:  We'd play anywhere if we could.  (laughs)

V:  Have you worked on any new material yet?
A:  Yeah, we've got 66 minutes towards the next album done.
I:  We were trying to get it done before the tour actually.
A:  But we realized that was silly.  Book the tour, rehearse for the tour… finsih a new album?  Something's gotta go from this list.  But it is coming along really well.  From my point of view, I'm doing a guitar album.  Urchin Tear Soda was my first synth album, where I really concentrated on my synth playing.  Azalean Sea I concentrated on the programming and the beats, it was a really beat-emphasized album.  Venomous Eve was a really minimal album, make everything as simple as I could make it.  There were whole passages that were just one note on the guitar.  I tried to make it as beautiful as possible while keeping it simple.  This (new) album is sort of like Bloom Flowers Bloom.  The songs all have two or three guitar tracks, the synths enter very rarely.  Ingrid has been doing something new too.
I:  (pause)  Oh yeah!  I wasn't sure if that was my cue…  singers always miss their cue.
A:  Yeah, how do you know when a singer is knocking at your door?  They don't know when to come in.
I:  (sarcastically)  Ha ha ha.  (laughs)  It's true though.  My vocals on this album are totally different.  They are a lot wilder.  I guess I use my voice a lot more, I sing more than on Urchin Tear Soda.  And the lyrics cover a broader spectrum.  Not more topics, but like world topics.  Not like overtly political or human rights activist lyrics or anything…. Less introspective I guess, I don't know how to say it.
A:  Where it verges on political is just in the conspiracy theorist thing.  I won't spoil it any more than that.  Kind of like the aspects of Big Brother, that gets some mentioning, sort of like how the Psychedelic Furs did the song about Reagan.

V:  Ask, what are the main things you use from your music composition background?
A:  Sixteenth century counterpoint.  The theories behind the laws of motion between multiple melodies that occur simultaneously and the laws of motions regarding melodies.  It was all based on Bach and Fux, the guy who first wrote a book on it.  Beyond that, some of the overall song maps that are devised by North Indian classical music.  I'll play song structures on that, but just kind of loosely.  The way Indian classical music is structured works fantastic for coming up with how to get through a guitar solo, for example.  The ragas for sitar, it's just giant solos, they just have a theory on how to structure it.

V:  Is there anything you'd like to try musically that you haven't been able to up til now?
I:  Having a live drummer.
A:  Yeah, it's not economically feasible for us right now.  We'd have to double the amount of money we're taking in to afford to take another car to take a drummer, a drum kit.  If we could tow it behind, we could save a little money, but…  And Joaquin might be that drummer, he's a great drummer.  He's the first person I'd want to try out, if we could find somebody to take over for him in the bass department.  He's an all-around great musician, he can play guitar, drums, bass and he can sing very well.  He can also write music really well.
J:  I'm just the bass player, man, I don't know about that…
(all):  (laughs)

V:  What do you look for in a song before you decide to cover it?
I:  The lyrics.
A:  (laughs)
I:  No bullshit.  And we have to like it and be able to think of all these crazy things we can do with it.  We have to be able to do it in our own style, without sounding cheesy and without sounding like we're trying to re-write the song completely.
A:  I have to have an idea of how I'm gonna fuck it up.

V:  Do you have a favorite Trance to the Sun album?
I:  I do. 
J:  Ummm…  Urchin Tear Soda is my favorite.  Every new song they do, the more I like them.  I think the next album will be my favorite, but it hasn't happened yet so I can't say that.
I:  Yeah, I think the next will be my favorite, too.  Aside from the stuff I do, 'cause I'm biased obviously, Venomous Eve.  Totally.
A:  That's an almost impossible question for me to answer.  Of the first three, Venomous Eve without a doubt, is the shit.  The album that we are presently working on kicks ass over anything we've done so far, so I can't wait for it to come out.

V:  Are you happy with Precipice Records?
A:  (immediately)  Yeah.  Never been happier.
I:  Pat rocks.  He's sooooo cool.

V:  How did you get on the label?
A:  Pat came to a Trance to the Sun show in '95 and I became friends with Lycia and we decided it would be fun to do a couple of shows together.  They lived in Phoenix and I lived in Santa Barbara.  So they set up a show where we could both play in Phoenix and I set one up where we could both play in Santa Barbara, in early '95.  We did those.  Projekt was based in LA at that time and came up to the show in Santa Barbara.  So Pat was there and he flipped out about our band.  I think even in those days when he was working at Projekt, he had it in mind to start his own label eventually and he had in mind who he would love to have on it.  And I think we were on his list since then, so when he started his label, we were the second band he called.  It was a year and a half from the time we agreed to do it until it became reality, but that's the msuic business.  It's a long process.

V:  Will you be re-issuing any of your earlier stuff that is out of print?
A:  It is in the hands of Tess Records.  If they can get their act together and get some copies printed.  I'm not really in a position to go and buy back the rights to it and do it myself.  If and when I am, I will buy back the rights to my earlier albums and release it myself.

V:  What do you guys like about Seattle?
A:  I love Seattle.
I:  Pretty much everything.  You can smoke in restaurants.  I would move nearly anywhere just for that.
(all):  (laughs)

V:  What do you guys think of Convergence so far?
A:  We were only at the show last night.  I'm not positive, but I think Trance to the Sun is the first band to ever play two Convergences.  We played Convergence 1 in Chicago.  The organization between Convergence 1 and Convergence 6 is night and day.  Convergence 1 had to be moved the week before it was supposed to happen.  It was promoted as an all ages event.  It got moved to another club which said they could have an all ages event there, but then changed their minds the day of the show.  People from all over the country came, who had tickets, and couldn't get in because it was suddenly 21 and over.  The club was 100 degrees inside.  We played on the second night of two nights.  There were five bands that night.  When I got on stage, all I could see was this see of people fanning themselves, their black eye liner running.  It was weird, they all looked the same, like little vampires in tuxedos fanning themselves.  Bizarre.  We were given about a ten minute sound check, in which we got it sounding okay, but they didn't take any notes or anything.  We got on the stage, switched on the vocal mic and this massive feedback erupted from every speaker in the house.  That's not how it was at sound check.  So, we switch off the mic and are just standing there, staring at the soundman.  I shouted at him, 'Is there anything you can do about the feedback?'  He switches on the talk-back so everyone in the audience can hear it and he says, 'That's as good as it's gonna get.  Start.'  (laughs)  So we sort of made it through that gig, but it wasn't a fantastic performance for us.
I:  I thought the sound was really phenomenal last night [at the Catwalk].  We had a monitor guy and a sound guy and they were both totally cool.
A:  It's the guy from the Fenix and we've worked with him a lot of times.  Brad's amazing sound guy, he's one of the best people I've worked with ever.  The person who achieved the greatest sound with us ever was at that first gig we did with Lycia.  We were there with our equipment waiting for the sound guy to get there at load-in.  Through the front doors of the club rides in this huge guy on a Harley, with a beard down to here, parks his Harley in front of the stage and says [in deep voice], 'I'm the sound guy!'  He got us - I don't know how the fuck he did it - we had like monitors with the vocals blaring, they weren't feeding back one bit.  Everything sounded phenomenal.  And he's all like, 'Yeah, you guys were pretty cool!  That was like kinky sex music.'  (laughs)