[Interview conducted November 2004]

Funny how things change with time.  Back in the mid 80s, you had a whole slew of bands successfully blending hardcore and metal, yet the resulting sound had very little in common with the metalcore sound of today.  Instead, it was a vibrant mix of hardcore’s energy and metal’s technicality, with bands as diverse as D.R.I., Nuclear Assault, Acrophet and Hirax releasing kick-ass albums.  Hailing from L.A., Hirax managed to make their mark with two raw, thrashy albums before throwing in the towel.  Fortunately, the continued popularity of the band’s output encouraged a reformation, with vocalist Katon De Pena leading the charge.  In 2004, he put together the most solid line-up to date and released the band’s fiercest, most complete record, namely The New Age of Terror.  A die-hard metal fan from the glory days, it was a pleasure to speak to the man about his past and continuing adventures with Hirax…

Since it is the topic of the day, what do you make of the election results?
You know, I guess to each their own, but the way I feel is actually…I don't know, I don't know what just hit me, to be honest.  It was kind of a catch-22 with the election because, to be honest, both guys scare the hell out of me.  From touring and going to Europe quite a bit, you would not believe the resentment they have towards Bush over there.  Myself, I feel that the biggest travesty of everything is that I just don't like war.  I don't care who is in the White House, but I just don't want to be invading countries and killing innocent people or having our people killed as well.  So I totally support our soldiers because to me, it's just like any other job, some people go in the service for a job and an education, so I don't blame the soldiers.  But I just think that whoever in the government is in charge of keeping peace all over the world instead of war.  You don't know what to think because here in America, we are lucky enough to be able to believe whatever we want to believe, but it is hard because you don't know if they are over there for oil or what, you know what I mean?

Yeah, the motives are never really clear.
Yeah.  And what happened to Osama Bin Laden?  To me, all these questions aren't getting answered; they just keep getting swept under the rug.  As a proud American, and don't get me wrong I am proud to be from America, my dad was in the Navy for 30 years you know, so I'm old-school American kid, but at the same time, it makes you wonder.  You just don't know what's going on, but I just want people to realize that most Americans aren't jerks, you know.  We're just a country that's pretty much run by our government, depending on who is in the government, that's how things fall.  Yeah, to be honest with you, both guys scared the hell out of me, but somebody's got to be president I guess.

This is one of the few truly genuine sounding thrash albums I’ve heard lately.  Are you pleased with the results?
Yeah, to me the whole thing is excellent, how everything went down, from recording it in four days, which nobody does that.  We didn't have the luxury that a lot of bands have - a lot of bands have so much time and money, even the newer bands like Fear Factory and Sepultura, bands like that, the budgets they have to record their records…  They couldn't even record a demo for the way we recorded.  If we stayed true, and I truly believe that we have, not too many bands could do what we do and in the amount of time.  I'm ecstatic about the new record and it's being received very, very, very well all over the world.  Not just in Europe, but it's being released in America and people are starting to finally get the record and things are going well.  As long as it gets to the people who truly love real metal and thrash and eve the hardcore kids that are into punk and crustcore and grindcore, it's getting to the right audience and that's totally how we intended the record to be done.  Eleven songs of pure thrash, what can you say?

The New Age of Terror is a great, provocative title – what led you to choose that one?
It's amazing because I feel great about this record that people are actually really listening to it.  It's funny because even with the way things are going and the record coming out, we didn't time it like this but with the elections and the war, it has a lot to do with all of that because we live in America and every day you wake up and it's on the news, it's in the papers, it's in your face.  So 'The New Age of Terror' is basically based around 9/11 because that is a day that none of us will forget no matter what we try to do, you can't forget that day.  We actually had a fan of ours that was in the twin towers when it went down and he died there.  I never forgot about it because when he passed away, his parents when they were closing down his e-mail account, they e-mailed us to let us know what happened.  The saddest thing about it was the kid was on a field trip inside the twin towers when that happened.  So the title track is based around that and then there are other topics of the last twenty years of what's been going on in the world mixed throughout the record.  It's a very strong record once you get into every part of it, especially the lyrical content.

I grew up in the 80s and that was always a big part of getting a new album - sitting down with it and really picking apart the lyrics.  It seems like nowadays, a lot of bands put all their effort into the music or the production and don't really care too much about the lyrics.
You do have a responsibility in certain ways because people can understand the way I sing, so the lyrics should say something.  We're one of those bands that really believe in speaking what's on our minds because we can do that.  I think a lot of bands take the opposite route because they are kind of scared to speak up, but I think that we have to say something, especially against things that we don't think are right.  I'm just glad also that we're able to do that and that's why all of our records have come with lyric sheets.

When it came to writing a new Hirax album, was it difficult at all trying to balance things, as far as keeping true to the original sound without repeating yourself or sounding dated?
That's a really good question.  The band that I have right now, they are all veterans, they've all been around for quite a while.  The drummer is from Argentina and he's like a drum god down in South America, so he was very familiar with what we were trying to do, thrash metal and heavy metal and just different elements of pure metal and intense hardcore.  The bass player is a local Los Angeles musician and he's been in a lot of local bands, like Uncle Slam and Reverend which was the singer from Metal Church's band.  Same with the guitar players.  Dave Watson is another veteran of the L.A. metal scene and Glen Rogers, who I have been writing material with because for some reason, even though we're not related, we're almost like brothers when it comes to heavy metal music, so we actually work really well together and have a good understanding of coming up with good riffs and lyrics and structures.  This record was actually so easy to do for us.  We sat down, we discussed what we wanted to do, which was to make a very powerful heavy record, but also remember the roots of what we grew up on because we love - and this is an understatement - we LOVE heavy metal.  So we've grown up on Sabbath, Maiden, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, and all that stuff… Angel Witch, the NWOBHM, and we didn't want to forget about that because that's our roots.  If you really listen to the record, you can see that's where we're really coming from, but at the same time, it's definitely a Hirax record.  And I feel very confident in saying that there's nobody like us.  We're really proud of the record and of what we do and that's why we're still doing it.  Most bands don't stay that true to their stuff.  The sound of the record is modern enough, but it is still very based on old-school thrash metal.  At the same time, I think we're able to bring the two mixes very well together.  Some people who don't know any better will think this is such a brand new fresh thing, but people like you and I who know our heavy metal history can also look at the record and go, 'These guys are nodding to the old-school and giving respect to the classic metal.'

Your vocal style is very unique - how did you go about developing it?
In the beginning especially, I just remember I always wanted to sound a little different from everybody else.  I had plenty of idols that I grew up with, guys like Bon Scott and Ian Gillan, Klaus Meine, especially the early Scorpions stuff with Uli Roth on guitar, stuff like that, and obviously Judas Priest.  Anybody that does heavy metal today, especially the kind of stuff we're doing, would be a liar not to say they grew up on Judas Priest.  Paul Di'Anno from Iron Maiden, I really liked his style a lot, but I knew I had to have my own style so it's a mixture of those kinds of things.  And I can't forget Biff Byford from Saxon.  A lot of that stuff, as well as hardcore, because I listen to some hardcore stuff as well, bands like Bad Brains, Black Flag, Discharge, G.B.H., a lot of American bands, Minor Threat, so there's a bit of that stuff thrown in there.  But I always tried to be myself because I knew that that was the best way to go.  Anybody, especially younger musicians when you're starting out, your strongest asset is to be yourself, that way you'll be the most comfortable singing or playing guitar or whatever instrument you do play.

Talking about the classic bands of the 70s and 80s, it seems like they all had very distinctive styles that were pretty broad in nature, whereas a lot of genre bands of today, whether it is black metal, hardcore or whatever, have a tendency to not only sound like everyone else but also to have a very narrow sound.
Totally and I think that's the only bad thing about it.  Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate a lot of those bands as well because they are friends of ours, like Napalm Death, Cannibal Corpse, bands like that, Vader, The Haunted.  But the thing is I think it's really good to separate yourselves from the pack as well.  You don't want to be the same as somebody else.  If someone else is already doing it, you should try to come up with your own style that will set you apart.

There are some definite references to religion on songs like "Hell on Earth" - what are your feelings about organized religion and the part it plays in the world today?
I think, especially being a kid growing up here in America, you couldn't really help but be around it.  I don't know anybody who hasn't attended church.  I think once you get a bit older, you make a decision on whether you want to be involved in organized religion or not.  Myself, I believe, whatever your religion is, whether you're into Jesus Christ or God or the devil or Satan or whatever, that's your personal choice.  There are people who are atheists; I have no problem with any of that.  I think everybody should be able to do what they want.  I think organized religion is really crazy, in America especially, because you've got all these basically people who are in cults whether they realize it or not.  Pretty nutty.  So that's what some of the songs like "Hell on Earth" are referring to.  Some people just don't realize they are forcing religion on people and that shouldn't be the way to do it, I don't believe in that at all.  Whether you're Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, whatever, you should be able to be that and not have anybody tell you how to live your life.  My thing that I'm really into is churches and graveyards.  Whenever we're on tour, I always take a day off and go out looking for old churches or graveyards.  I just find it very intriguing and that's another reason I write about those subjects on the albums.

I bet you've had quite a few interesting places to explore in Europe.
Oh yes, that's my favorite thing when we're on tour in Europe.  Especially when we were in Sweden, there's really some incredible churches, and Holland has some really old, old churches.  When you get to see that stuff, it's really mind-blowing.  There was a church in Sweden that we went to where the priests were buried in the walls of the church and that was amazing.

There are also some war themes on the album.  Does that just go back to what you said earlier, about being opposed to war in general?
Very much so.  I think especially as us being humans, there should be another way for us to figure things out and not fight physically.  Isn't it alright to have an opinion?  Whatever happened to that?  I still don't think we should go into countries and tell people how to live their lives, I don't think we should go into countries and tell them that they should be Christians when they are already Buddhists or something like that - leave them alone.  Everybody's interpretation of their god, whatever god they pray to or whatever god they don't pray to, is their own business.  America has kind of gotten into the business of telling people how to live their lives and I don't think that's the way it should be.

The production is clearly a step up from your early albums, but it still has a very stripped-down, raw feel to it.  Did you want to make sure you maintained that live energy in the studio?
Most definitely.  You can sit in the studio for months, but that's not our thing.  Cleaning up the records too much takes away the heaviness, takes away the power, and I think a lot of bands are guilty of that.  I'm not going to point any fingers, but I just don't want to ever make a thin, light album.  I'm very proud that we're able to do what we do, like I said, a lot of bands could not do what we do, especially when it comes to recording.  I don't know of any bands recording an album in four days like we did and not complaining about it.  One of these days, I'm sure we'll be able to record a little bit longer and I'm sure the records will only get better, but we will never over-produce our records or sit in the studio too long.  Plus, it's a waste of time and we'd rather be on the road touring and seeing all the fans.  That's really what we live for, touring.  Recording is great and it's definitely a very interesting process, but going out on tour is the best and seeing the fans, especially for us.  A lot of bands you hear saying how great their fans are, but nah, our fans are insane, they rule the earth.  You can put our fans up against any of those fans, whether it is Slayer or Metallica or Manowar, but we have the best fans in the world.

That's a pretty bold statement.
It's true.  That's what cool about it; I don't have to just say that, it's the truth.  We just got back from Holland and that was insane.  Where we played in Holland, stage diving is outlawed and they were stage diving from the first song to the very end of the set.  It's amazing.  Just things like showing up to the airport and kids being there waiting for you, kids giving you gifts and stuff, so we're very honored and very lucky and we know it, so that's why we try to give the fans that we have 100% in everything we do, whether it is recording the record or going out on tour.  But I'd just rather spend the extra time that we could be sitting in the studio wanking off and overproducing records, I'd rather be on tour.

I thought it was cool to see the album on Mausoleum Records, as they are definitely an old-school label.  Are you happy with how they've been working so far?
It's kind of a good combination, if you think about it, because we're one of those bands that truly believes in the roots of metal and that labels' been around for a long time.  They hadn't released a record in many years so it kicked them in the ass as well and they've been busting their ass over there in Europe to get the record out all over the place.

Where is Mausoleum based out of?
Belgium.  Yeah, there's a great heavy metal scene there.  I mean Belgium is right next to Germany and you've heard about Germany.  Germany is by far one of the greatest places in the world to play if you're in a band like Hirax.

It seems like fans there never lost the passion for metal, even during the 90s.
They never lost the passion and they never gave up on real heavy metal, or as they call it 'true metal.'

I saw that The New Age of Terror is coming out on vinyl in Sweden.
Yeah, we're blown away by that because the packaging is amazing.  It's a gatefold 12" that opens up with the lyrics inside, all the photos are high quality, so it's a really great looking record.  For right now, they've made a limited edition version of 500 copies and I hope I get one myself.  I just saw the layout and was blown away.  I don't usually keep too much stuff, I just have a few things, but I really want to get my hands on a copy [of that], it's just really nice package.  It's on TPL Records.

Did they approach you about it or was it something you wanted to do?
Well, I would have liked to have done it anyway, but what was really wild was we played this thing called the Sweden Rock Fest and it was with Judas Priest, Scorpions, Europe, just all these great bands… Children of Bodom, Testament, Exodus, Y&T, In Flames, U.D.O. - it was one of the coolest festivals we've ever played.  They saw us perform at Sweden Rock and right away, like the next day, we were on our way back to the airport and there was a phone call on my cell phone and they asked if they could release the record in Europe, in Sweden, on vinyl and we said, 'Hell, yeah!'  We were actually honored because there were a lot of great bands that played that day and for some reason they were really into doing the Hirax record.  I guess they really liked our show.  When we play in Sweden, it's really a different place to play, because if you're from sunny California like we are, it's Viking territory and really, really cold.  Before we went on we were jumping around back stage, trying to stay warm.  The show was great and I think the reason it was so great was because we were trying to stay warm, headbanging faster than ever, you know.

I read that the following you have in Europe is actually one of the things that led to you getting the band back together.
Yeah, for some reason, over the years, since 1984, the mail has never stopped.  What's funny is we even go on the road to this day and there are people who bought the first demo tape back in 1984, so the fanbase we have in Europe is amazing.  But you know I can't really put down the following we have in the States, because it's pretty similar, it's just not as big because America has a problem with trendy music taking over the airwaves.  But, at the same time, there are still a lot of true, die-hard heavy metal fans in America and I gotta give a shout out to those people.  We've done other festivals in the States, like the Classic Metal Fest and we're getting ready to do the Seattle Metal Fest and everytime we go on the road, there are people who come out of wood work to see us.  America I think will be surprising people, especially in 2005.  We'll be on the road a lot as well as a lot of our other brother bands and I think that real metal will probably be making a bigger comeback, especially with us and doing it again and bands like Megadeth back and Exodus, I think people will get a big kick in the ass.  Even Iron Maiden is back and so is Judas Priest, so I think people will get a big kick in the ass from heavy metal again.

You definitely adopted a very classic metal look on the album photos, with the studded leather.  Was that to make a statement, to show where your roots are?
Yeah that and just to let them know what they were getting themselves into.  We went out of our way to bring out the old heavy metal gear again and a lot of bands don't do it as much.  I mean there's a few, but not a ton of 'em wearing a shitload of spikes, leather and denim, you know.  We're very proud of that and to us, that's like putting on the uniform, representing what we do, and we wanted people when they picked up the record and flipped it over and looked at the back, we just wanted people to know that there was a real metal band and, yes, this is what they were getting.

Is this a pretty stable line-up?
Yeah.  Over the years, especially when I was going through a lot of line-up changes, it was mostly due to the fact that it is hard for bands to go out on tour.  I mean these guys have so far hung in there.  I'm one of the guys that's crazy, I'll keep going on the road, but some guys just can't handle that lifestyle, especially when you're not as big a band as Metallica and not making that kind of money.  When you've got to come home and still pay rent on a place that you're living in, you gotta make a little bit of money on the road.  But for now, it's pretty stable and we're just going to keep trucking along, no matter what.  The other reason we have kept going through the line-up changes is because of the fanbase that we have.  We don't want to let people down.  One thing I've realized is that the fans want you to keep coming no matter what, so we're going to keep this machine rolling no matter what it takes.  We've got a very good line-up right now and I hope all the boys can handle it because we've got a lot of touring coming up in 2005.

You were based out of LA originally - was there a close-knit scene there as well as the Bay Area?
For us, it was a little bit different because we were really tight with a lot of the Bay Area bands for some reason.  L.A. was good as well, but when we'd play San Francisco, it would always be insane.  Like, you could see us up there with Death Angel and Disaster, Megadeth and Exodus, and people would just come out of the wood work to see shows like that.  I remember one night, it was Testament, Hirax, Exodus and Megadeth all on the same bill, so we had a good brotherhood with the Bay Area scene.  But also on the L.A. scene, there was us, Slayer, Dark Angel, Savage Grace, Armored Saint, there was quite a plethora of bands.  There was a little bit of a brotherhood as well as a little competition because you're all trying to outdo each other, but I think at the same time that made it healthy because whenever one of us would put out a record, the other guys would hear it and want to try and top it.  I think that actually still goes on today.  That's part of the reason the new record is so strong is because we knew we had to put out something really good or forget it.

Well, I think you succeeded there.  (laughs)
Yeah, I feel really happy about it.  What's funny is that it is still gaining so much steam, people are still just getting into the record.  I like that, I'd rather it slowly take off and pick up, because there are a lot of bands releasing really shabby records out there and you look at those records they will fall off.  But also being from the scene that we come from, a true underground band, I'd rather people find out from word of mouth and through magazines and fanzines and college radio stations or whatever that play this kind of music, god bless 'em.

Oh yeah, that's the only way I found bands back in the 80s.  It certainly wasn't through any of the corporate radio stations or MTV.
Yeah, and also the independent mom-and-pop record stores where there's a cool dude behind the counter telling the kids about some great new band.  That's what it's all about for Hirax, those are the people that we care about.

What do you make of all the metal trends that have come along since you first started out, like death and black metal?
I think all that stuff is great, I think death metal, black metal, thrash metal, all that shit, grindcore, crustcore, it kicks ass in its own right.  You gotta give those people credit because they are doing something that has integrity and has roots.  But at the same time, I can't stand rap-metal; I can't listen to that shit.  I'm not one of those guys who jumped on the bandwagon of hating nu-metal - I hated it before it was even a trend to hate.  I don't even want to mention some of the earliest bands that were doing it, that's how much I hate it, but there were bands that were doing rap-metal before it even got popular.  That's kind of one of things that I always tease the guys in Anthrax whenever I see those guys because if it wasn't for them, I don't think rap-metal would have gotten as big as it did, because they were one of the first.  (laughs)

I bet they're still kicking themselves for that.
If anything, if they could deal with it, I'm sure they wouldn't mind having the money that bands like Limp Bizkit have, but it's just funny that they inspired that whole fucking scene.  I kind of feel sorry for them but I'm just glad it wasn't me.  (laughs)  Too funny…

Hardcore was obviously an influence on your work, what do you think about how the hardcore scene has changed over the years?  To me, the stuff in the 80s just had so much more energy than what is currently going under the name 'hardcore.'
Yeah, it had integrity and energy, definitely.  I think it's funny because I think some of the kids don't know any better that's why they listen to it, it's like they don't even know what hardcore is.  It's just like these bands calling themselves metal - that's not metal and it's definitely not hardcore.  But, the only thing I think might be good about it is maybe kids will want to find out what real metal and real hardcore is.  I know that when I was a kid, when I heard a band like Accept or Motörhead, I wanted to find more bands like that, I wanted to look more into it, so hopefully those kids will do what we did.  But most of that new shit sucks. (laughs)

Phantasm - I remember I was in high school and ordered a copy of that demo which I didn't do very often and it rocked!  It was very cool because you took the time to write personally when you sent the demo.
Right on, man, I appreciate you saying that because, believe me, especially now, me and my girlfriend, we put a lot of hours into preparing packages and mailings.  I write back to everybody that writes to us so I really appreciate it when people remember it.  Even now, we get a little bit behind and I hope people will be a bit patient and understand that we actually respond to every letter.  Not like most bands who just put a form letter into the package and send it.  We actually care because people take the time out to write to us, we feel like we should take the time out to write to them.  Phantasm was a fun band, because it was me and friends.  It was Gene Hoglan from Dark Angel who also did Death and Testament and Strapping Young Lad who he is with now, and then the original bass player from Metallica, Ron McGovney.  So it was a bunch of my buddies and we just put this band together and it was great, we had a lot of fun just jamming and drinking beer and writing tunes.  What's funny that a lot of people don't realize is that, at the beginning, the original guitar player was Rocky George from Suicidal Tendencies.  He was the guy that originally started that process with us, but once we got close to recording the demo, right before we recorded the demo, he had to leave to go record Join the Army with Suicidal Tendencies, so that's why he's not on the recordings.  But it still turned out great and I'm very proud of the Phantasm demo and it finally came out on vinyl and it's called Wreckage, with some live tracks.

Were you disappointed that that band didn't get off the ground more and do a full album?
In a way I was, but to be honest, I loved that band, but I'm glad that I went back and did Hirax because especially where we're at now.  The New Age of Terror is the direction I wanted Hirax to go in and finally, whatever amount of years later, we're doing it.  But the thing with Phantasm is it was hard to keep together because everybody had so many other things going on.  But it was a fun project and I’m glad that we did it and I never would have thought that years later it would be available on CD and vinyl.  Everything happens for a reason.  Hirax in the early days had a great run, but we didn't stick around long enough, we broke up, and that's probably the reason we didn't make it as big back then, but you never cry about spilled milk or the past.  Now is now and Hirax is doing very well so I couldn't be happier.

Do you still keep in touch with Rocky?
Well, I run into him from time to time.  He's one of my favorite hardcore guitar players; I think he's amazing, I think he's underrated.  He's like the punk rock Yngwie Malmsteen.  He's a shredder - if the term ever applied to anyone, it applied to him.  But he's still around here and there in the L.A. scene.  I know for a little while there he played with the Cro-Mags as well.  Where Hirax is now, I hear from all the old-school musicians still to this day.  Just recently we ran into Testament and Exodus and we're all still somehow going.  It's amazing and who ever would have thought our music would stand the test of time?  I mean, it's like one of those things where a lot of people didn't think that thrash metal or heavy metal would be around as long as it has.  It has totally kicked everybody's ass and is still around.

http://www.hirax.org

HIRAX is:
Katon W. DePena - Vocals
Glenn Rogers - Guitars
Dave Watson - Guitars
Angelo Espino - Bass
Jorge Iacobelles - Drums